Forum:Impeach us

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"Accountability" is useful word. It applies so well to someone else. For example, who is the "someone else" that should be held accountable for the decisions of the President and his administration?

It seems, we are. Those of us who voted for him, those of us who voted for someone else, and those of us who didn't vote at all. We are all part of, contribute to, enjoy the benefits of, and share the responsibilities for our country, its policies, and its actions. We together select our decision makers, and we are the ones accountable. However, accountability is something nobody wants. Consider our yard signs and bumper stickers:

"Bush lied." In other words, "It's all Bush's fault because he did not tell the truth." The truth is that we have long had ample evidence that reality and what Bush says often do not coincide. Whether we ascribe intentionality to this fact is irrelevant. We not only elected him once, we nominated him for a second term, and then we reelected him. Bush was not an unknown. We thoughtfully, consciously, and deliberately selected him. His decisions are our responsibility.

"Kerry/Edwards." In other words, "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for him," which as a denial of responsibility is bad enough. But it also infers, "He's not my President," which as a denial of reality is even worse.

"Bush/Cheney." In other words, "I voted for him," which is not dishonest. But it also infers "and I made the right choice," which one would hope is not worse than dishonest. At best, this is an attempt to evade accountability by denying the obvious.

"No blank check for endless war." It's not a war. If Iraqis were fighting just us - a true war - then we could just leave and Iraq would recover on its own. The problem is that Iraqis are fighting each other. We now are engaged not in a war but a police action, required by results of our inability to restore stability after disrupting their society. We have a moral responsibility to Iraq, which we may indeed have to honor with a blank check.

"Impeach Bush." Another attempt to blame someone else. Erase the "B" and "h" and then read it again.

It is easy to claim responsibility and then do nothing. We must find and implement solutions to problems that we have created, and we must put in place the means to prevent their recurrence. It is self-evident that no proposal to hold ourselves accountable will be pleasant or politically popular. Understanding this might make it easier to explore options, which might begin with the following:

Restore the draft. It is too easy to ignore the impact of serious decisions when someone else takes the burden. We will be much more careful in considering military action when we know we could be personally touched by it.

Levy a special tax to fund the reconstruction of Iraq. We now understand that our decision to attack Iraq was an error - our error. Reconstruction is therefore our responsibility, not the responsibility of future generations.

Fix the election process. It is clear that we did not properly vet this president. We must find a way to ensure that we give ourselves a choice of qualified candidates.

You raise a lot of refreshingly different points. As you will soon see, I disagree on many issues, but you're a welcome change from the left-mantra-people that I normally deal with.

I'm totally with you up until you sideline "Bush/Chaney" as "an attempt to evade accountability by denying the obvious." Aparrently whatever it is I'm denying isn't obvious to me; you're going to have to explain it. I'm not sure whether you're talking about the War in Iraq / on Terror / Occupation / NSA wiretapping / [insert-term] or what, but last time I checked, conventional wisdom (what 'everyone' 'obviously' thinks) isn't an argument.

I guess in summary, you're arbitrarily declaring that "Iraq was an error" without providing any sort of basis for it, simply relying on 'the obvious' or 'conventional wisdom' to 'prove' your point for you, when in reality any rational person will always search for cause before accepting effect. As an example of what type of backup to provide, one reason I _don't_ think Iraq was an error I have discussed here.

Keep thinking, keep fighting, and keep speaking out. Just throw in some evidence every now and then to back up what you say ;) Compaqdrew 20:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is a collective responsiblity, and we should each take positive steps towards solutions. I see too much blaming of George Bush for everything. It's like blaming Hitler. If the population as a whole did not enable such leaders, they would not have power. The issue is far larger than any one man or group.

However, on some of your points, I disagree. Overall, a lot of what occurs is by no stretch of the imagination my personal doing. In fact, a lot of what occurs is very much contrary to my efforts and beliefs, and I feel the people primarily responsible have taken the US government by force - a quiet, unacknowledged coup. I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of Earth before a citizen of the US: I am part of a larger group, and I take responsibility for the whole thing. I don't put Americans ahead of anyone else in line for food, water, and fuel. As you observed, we're all in this together. Also...

If Iraqis were fighting just us - a true war - then we could just leave and Iraq would recover on its own.

We can't leave Iraq. Where will the US get its oil? IMO, anyone who doesn't realize that the primary reason the US military is in Iraq is for oil interests is in serious denial. But the depth of denial never fails to amaze me. The US is addicted to oil like a drug and will go to ANY length to get its fix, and its citizens are largely complicit.

Restore the draft.

If you wish to go fight, go ahead. I understand your reasoning, but the draft is the most unAmerican concept I can imagine. Freedom? Telling our children "you must go fight this war for us morons who started it!!!" is based on the freedom and liberty of citizens? I don't think so. I'm a big believer in freedom and choice - the real kind, and it starts at home. If your fellow citizens aren't willing to fight your war, take a hint - they're against it. A draft is a dangerous thing in the current political context, because to a large extent the populace is no longer in charge of the US government - they are prisoners of it (your observation of the flawed election process is one example of this). Forcing them to fight while denying their political power is exploitation, plain and simple. Further, drafts always favor the rich and powerful (as do most things in the US these days).

Levy a special tax to fund the reconstruction of Iraq.

If you want to make (yet more of) a charitable contribution to Haliburton and Dick Cheney, be my guest. IMO they are traitors to the American people, and I have no wish to line their pockets.

Fix the election process.

Amen! There you have my full support.

Obviously, we do not see all of politics the same way. Yet I am glad to see more conservative people such as yourself NOT backing George Bush and others by default. Likewise, I do not feel most Democrats represent me well at all. In many ways, they are all members of an exclusive club, to hell with the rest of us. --Slije 23:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)